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    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-03-01 09:03
No 188840
       Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Look familiar???
(JPG may take some time to load)





The reaction is actively bubbling in phase-1 .
The stock pot on the left contains wet sand and sits on a hot plate when adding heat.

Notice, there is no tape on the reaction flask holding the stopper in place. The reason is the reaction is occurring without external heat.
The Phosphorus is added slowly , a tea-spoonfull at a time, then mixed in with the reaction chems. The RP is added at a rate that maintains the reaction , but does not let it go over 150 F.

I takes about 2 hours. The advantage is that by avoiding high-temperature and limiting the violence of the phase-2 reaction, the yield is improved, and the final product is ready to go after evaporating the HCl-meth and water.
In other words additional cleaning,  such as recrystalization is not needed because the side reactions and by-products are reduced to a minimum,
when the violent reaction and high temps are avoided.
It is still a good idea to not let the reaction hang in limbo, but also avoid the big whoosh.

Once again you walk that thin line, between too much and not enough energy imparted into the reaction mixture.

By using the same quality of precursers each time, you can estimate  this accurately.

If using different brands of precursers and different reaction sizes, it is more difficult to know in advance what to expect.



Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    BenWiFFen
(Hive Bee)
05-03-01 09:33
No 188848
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Hay, How did you get in my pad??
STING_KING-Bee
  
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-03-01 09:51
No 188855
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
HeHehe
You keep forgetting to lock the door when your sleeping during the day. Hope you don't mind, I cleaned up before I left.
Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    Hematite
(Individual)
05-03-01 10:53
No 188864
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
2001.
We unravel the human genome.
We have cloned plants and animals.
We are now going to try cloning humans.
We explore space and are partway through a complex and insanely high tech construction project that is a space station.
We even have a competition for the X-prize, where civilian teams compete to construct a vehicle that is able to be successfully manned and shot into space and recovered twice in a two week period , though what they could win that'd top that is beyond me!
All this and much more.......and we still have to tape the connection of a hose to a plastic container!!!!
Some things just never change I guess.
cool
Regards, Hematite. 		 
   
 
   
    akata
(Hive Bee)
05-03-01 12:30
No 188882
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Hot diggity dawg. How much redp is used , say for an oz?
And is the recovery amount still the same? I would assume more redp is consumed and turned into PI3 or whatever? 		 
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-03-01 23:12
No 188982
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
How much Red P is used??? akata asks.

You will be happy to know that very little, depending upon the quality of the RP and E.   ....etc, etc, blah, blah.
I find I am adding 1/2 to 1/3 the amount of RP that I previously used.

There are some major variations in the types of RP available, some is 3-4 times stronger than other types of RP.

A 30gm of E  reaction, takes a heaping teaspoon full added by the 1/4 teaspoon up to 2 tsp or 4-6 grams of RP
So in the range of 10%-20% of the weight of E.

I have not weighed the left over post reaction amount of RP, because of wetness and iodine and it would probably not be very accurate.
However by looking at the amount remaining is seems (subjectively) that very little is being used up.
In fact I am thinking I'll never need to purchase any more RP ever again.


Ephedrine-freebase
----------------------
Some reactions were done using a E-freebase  as an activator.
In the ranges as low as 10% E-FB,  it was necessary to chill the E and I2 before adding any RP, because of a serious tendency to go ballistic.
The reason being that the E-FB will split the I2 apart

E(FB)+   +  I2   <-->    E-I(salt) +   I-

This provides a source of ionic I- that aggressively
reacts with the P4 at room temperatures.

Temperature
-----------
The sand and water heating device provides a mild heating effect that does not create rapid temperature variations , common with a more direct contact to the heat source.
Massive amounts of mixing is also critical.

Reaction End point
-------------------
At the end all the signs of a complete reaction are visible, crystal formation on neck of the flask, odor , consitency, and color changes are all apparent but there was no definite, big blow that is commonly seen as the phase 2 reaction.
There is a rise in the volume of the reactants and that is about it.

The best part is the final product is clean and no additional preparation (beyond evaporating water), is required much of the time.

By-Products
-----------
A Slowly reacting , homogenous mixture, definitely reduces the trashy by-products from ever forming , the advantages in yield are also apparent even with the DEA's damn pseudo-ephedrine (a racemic blend of the four relative diastemers).

Quantity - Yield
--------------
One thing I noticed about yeilds is that often about 1/3 of the speed will be stuck in the lye solution and very slowly rises into the fuel layer (like the next day it surfaces).

This is due to the highly concentrated reaction and NaOH solutions. The iodide, being an electronegative glory hole,  must be pulling on the meth freebase keeping it in the polar layer longer.
This can be partially overcome by diluting the polar layer, then salting it out.
In addition, adding a large amount of fuel to pull the speed out faster works well.
Still the next day a sizable amount of go and fuel will rise to the surface of the lye solution.

Quality
--------
Quality is affected to a high degree by the volume of water used to wash the Meth freebase. Use large volumes of water on each of the three water washes of the non-polar/meth solution, and the quality of the meth goes way up, rapidly.
Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-03-01 23:22
No 188984
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
You see the hoses all have their ends flared out with a hot knife to make a good seal ,all except the intake hose to the p/p tank.

I have some excuses as to why:

1) Being lazy I figured it was too much trouble to flare it , but it would have been easy

2)My second lame excuse for the tape is this
You never had one of those hoses cut loose, it scares the shit out of you.
But Heme won't buy that either.

So do it your way take a picture with your fancy ass camera.
and put it where I told you to not put your head up into anymore.
Cause your puter won't read it. after ypour head has been up there


Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    speedfreak90
(Hive Bee)
05-04-01 00:16
No 188997
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
dude you truly are a tweaker god this info may beecome invaluable thanks for much dedication to helping bees out and thanks for helping swim become a (blank) himself it has really helped him out .
ignorance is soooooooo bliss 		 
   
 
   
    b159510
(Hive Bee)
05-04-01 05:51
No 189092
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
If I may ask, how was this conclusion reached?
The reason being that the E-FB will split the I2 apart

E(FB)+ + I2 <--> E-I(salt) + I-

This provides a source of ionic I- that aggressively reacts with the P4 at room temperatures.
What atom of ephedrine froms a bond with the iodide anion before the ephedrine is reduced? And lastly, why would that make it a salt? Thanks. 		 
   
 
   
    BieneMaja
(Hive Bee)
05-04-01 06:43
No 189103
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Referring to:

What atom of ephedrine froms a bond with the iodide anion before the ephedrine is reduced? And lastly, why would that make it a salt? Thanks.


maybe i'm totally wrong, but maybe something like SN reaction. i read something about a few weeks ago, i'll look it up.
the methylaminogroup 'could' also turn tho N+H2CH3 (i don't think so).

ea vita est via in caelum (seneca)
[this life is the way to heaven] 		 
   
 
   
    b159510
(Hive Bee)
05-04-01 06:50
No 189106
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Hold on.
the methylaminogroup 'could' also turn tho N+H2CH3 (i don't think so).
You are probably correct about this. But this isn't what my question was regarding. Thanks for the response though. 		 
   
 
   
    whatsupium
(Hive Addict)
05-04-01 07:03
No 189107
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
It is the valence, check the valence, where is that shell game hiding the bean?tongueblushshockedcrazy
















Or is it the the undefined compound created as a by-product, from tape & tied labware?












there is the molar question, (did worlock have that molar pulled, or did the dentist close early?)










Personally I belive the P4 is an improvement over the method using "C4" because the violence involved is downgraded.












but what do I know, I dream in birch treehouses... what was in that mushroom soup...???blush
Hell, a fuck divided by a B.J. = UNDIVIDED PLEASURE! I love new math... 		 
   
 
   
    strokium
(Stranger)
05-04-01 09:00
No 189128
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
WORLOCK, swis is thinking of trying this, and see himself the difference,swis has always been a true believer of the building up to the 1 short minuite of the sexy 2nd phaze shaken and humm'n. if this is done without filling your flask full of purple smoke then yeilding has never been a problem.
washind your np /meth solution is just simply done by adding water then shake the shit out of it then disgaurd the water layer? this water wont pull out any of the meth 		 
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-04-01 09:39
No 189132
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Referring to:

If I may ask, how was this conclusion reached?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason being that the E-FB will split the I2 apart

E(FB)+ + I2 <--> E-I(salt) + I-

This provides a source of ionic I- that aggressively reacts with the P4 at room temperatures.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What atom of ephedrine froms a bond with the iodide anion before the ephedrine is reduced? And lastly, why would that make it a salt? Thanks. 


It is the nitrogen group, that is the prime determinemnt of solubility here and the presence of the -OH on the ephedrine is a lesser force.

The nitrogen is not involved in the redox reaction but is an acid base (Lowrey Bronstead) type of a salt producing neutralization ionic bond, and will change valence but not oxidation states (typically)

When In a neutral to acidic environment the nitrogen will have an additional proton(hydrogen) attached to it
, this is the nature of acids to carry thgat slightly + charge.

With N, Florine , and oxygen . One of these three atoms is usually present in a water soluble compound . because they form  Hydrogen bonding with the water solution.
Hydrogen bonding is a exceptionally strong ionic bond,  1/5 the stre nghth of a covalent bond,.
This is what makes it water soluble the presence of the added acid the hydrogen on the NH+,

Remove the proton by adding a base and the proton is stripped off and the compound becomes non-polar (oil soluble)
That is what ephedrine freebase is. It is the missing the Positive charge on the N

Ephedrine Hydrochloride, Has the proton and that in turns attracts a negative ion like chloride this is the ephedrine chloride salt.

Iodine because of its larger size, and  the outer electrons are further from the center,  and the negative charge is dispersed more easily tends to dissociate from
I2 <---> 2I-
more readily than Chlorine


So if you mix
E freebase with Iodine in the presense of water, the E freebase will snap up the free H+  +  I- ions
equilibrium will be reached a  portion of the E becomes the iodide salt with a resultant production of heat 
and liberation of a  free I- atom

Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-04-01 09:54
No 189135
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
   
Poster: strokium
Subject: Re: Basic Reaction Setup

WORLOCK, swis is thinking of trying this, and see himself the difference,swis has always been a true believer of the building up to the 1 short minuite of the sexy 2nd phaze shaken and humm'n. if this is done without filling your flask full of purple smoke then yeilding has never been a problem.
washind your np /meth solution is just simply done by adding water then shake the shit out of it then disgaurd the water layer? this water wont pull out any of the meth 



The water washes will not pull out any meth as long as it is done three times and the water is pure not contaminated with Chloride or other such anions.
Around the fifth wash cycle or
when the wash fluids come off under pH 10 then you begin dumping product with the water.

At pH 9.0 you will loose the majority of your speed with the wash water,
If your speed is tasting shitty you may  need to wash with more water ,

the pH of distilled water is often 6.8 so each water wash will lower the pH a little bit as it removes the sodium and crap

if it is fine tasting with no yield you may be flushing it with too much water
Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    b159510
(Hive Bee)
05-04-01 10:28
No 189140
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Thanks for the response. I understand how all that works but I was curious as to how the I- would bond directly to the ephed. Throw a hydrogen in there to protonate the nitrogen and the I- forms an ion pair and it all makes sense. Thanks again...hmm..that iodine is such a weak base, it'll give up that hydrogen like a cheap ho...I wonder if the protonated nitrogen is enough to break the I-I bond.. Probably is..right on. ...hmmm.. 		 
   
 
   
    Jacked
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
05-04-01 15:06
No 189174
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Well I don't know Ions from byons but your
right about the FB/E, SWIM floods out the
second phase with just enough H20 to keep it
active but stable and refluxes this for an
hour until separation. Yields after modified
kerplunking are 75%+ No recrystalizing
neccesary, SWIM will soon to see 80% Hope so
anyway. I found this out by accident when a
RXN all the sudden went dry. It was a not
FB/E but HCl, it turned out to be very good
gear and there was more than usual, go
figure.
Paid in Full 		 
   
 
   
    SuperAssman
(Hive Addict)
05-04-01 21:02
No 189220
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Referring to:

Around the fifth wash cycle or
when the wash fluids come off under pH 10 then you begin dumping product with the water.

At pH 9.0 you will loose the majority of your speed with the wash water,
If your speed is tasting shitty you may  need to wash with more water ,

Worlock, have you ever tried washing with NaOH solution?
SWIM now does a single NaOH wash, followed by a single warm/hot water wash, then one cold water wash, or two if a ton of lye was used in the wash. This has improved cleanliness of gear, as well as yields.
Presumably, the lye wash allows maximum removal of iodides as NaI in the subsequent water washes. Helps keep Ph right up there too.

Wallet pictures of SWIMs babies.Aaahhh, ain't they lovely.
Post No 178231
Post No 175966 		 
   
 
   
    strokium
(Stranger)
05-05-01 04:27
No 189305
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
reply to
_____________________________________________________
Worlock, have you ever tried washing with NaOH solution?
    SWIM now does a single NaOH wash, followed by a single warm/hot water wash, then one cold water wash, or two if a ton of lye was
    used in the wash. T
___________________________________________________________________
   how strong of a solution do you use rto do this 		 
   
 
   
    BieneMaja
(Hive Bee)
05-05-01 05:36
No 189315
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Referring to:

Hydrogen bonding is a exceptionally strong ionic bond,  1/5 the stre nghth of a covalent bond


maybee i missunderstand but are'nt ionic bonds stronger than covalent bonds? afaik this is the reason for those high mp + bp from salts. or did you mean strong in comparison to intermolecular forces between np molecules?

Referring to:


Iodine because of its larger size, and  the outer electrons are further from the center,  and the negative charge is dispersed more easily tends to dissociate from
I2 <---> 2I-
more readily than Chlorine

to split hairs: Cl-Cl- : 242 kJ/mol
                 I-I   : 151 kJ/mol


Referring to:

So if you mix
E freebase with Iodine in the presense of water, the E freebase will snap up the free H+  +  I- ions
equilibrium will be reached a  portion of the E becomes the iodide salt with a resultant production of heat 
and liberation of a  free I- atom

this reads a little confusing for me, if there were H+ and I- ions in the wather it would mean you have already HI acid. or do you mean that the hungry N+H-CH3 group just use a little
H2O molecule to rip the H off leaving an OH- as it does the N in NH3? i just ask so irrelevant questions, cause my non-organic chem. book says that 'iodine is in water only soluable in the presence of I- ions forming an complex [..]'
I2 + I- --> I3-

in the end it is maybe not that important, how the iodine and the eph are getting 'connected'.wink

ea vita est via in caelum (seneca)
[this life is the way to heaven] 		 
   
 
   
    epistemologicide
(Newbee)
05-05-01 06:10
No 189320
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
ardent and cabal, the hives generation of improvised energy and ability to show the system that creativity cannot be entierly held at its mercy for always is the strength and awareness that sheilds the foibles.

i as alot of dreamers began here humbely and thanks to the insight that individuals such as s.a.m(super ass man) worlok, placebo and the rest (please you all know who you are) have learnt and been impowered by how effective the positive can truly create..

so i wish to show concern for all the individuals here and worlok.................

all brilliant minds-!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but one dimensional focusses can limit the potencial of all of you. i speak first to address the health issue .

firstly i do not use alot.(but do dreams) i train 5 days a week at the gym(3 years) and eat healthy and am the founding member of a extreme metal based horde, with current projects of compilations mag's sites etc, to spread awareness of greed, subjugation of society and organised religion and promote earth friendly technology, and play an guitarest for black metal band epistemologicide.

i do to preserve the neuro cells in my brain,

take ginko, brahmi, etc,(from herb plants -pills from chemist ) all the herb plants that increase the blood flow to the brain and prevent alzchimers.plus increase memory

having alot of testos in my system enables me to posses strength, and does what alot of the energy that the meth does to all of your brains, and so i feel the need to use hardly ever.

i wish you all to take care of your bodies, and brain

and bone density, seek some training at the gym and you will soon find out how your body as it was designed can truly feel good naturally which translates to the brain. then you will feel the need to use less, and take the ginko and brahmi, and you will have excess energy as well as memory as it increases your memory, and most importantly preserve you pressious brain cells.

crazy

ofcause pull in more chicks with the pecscool
females, can have the energy and your curves can make you known as a person about pride and feeling in self preservation that feels twice as good as the normal folk.

i am only writing this as why i do the things i do in life to motervate people to motervate them selfs.

sorry i fear for worlok,

and you all 

please , please please?take care of your selfs, you have taught me alot and i am now successfull, so i feel responsibility to help thise around me prosper,
curve, jacked etc,laugh
you all from your past are naughty extreme doods hehehtongue

so mate, if a 102 kilo dood, is tryen to be nice than pleaz listen , and i mean start now ,im am serious sisters and brothers.

and worlok, i can write you out a good diet and programme for you to start getting your self sustainable,
please dont ignore me, it is not the meth talking strong onesfrown i feel connections with responsibility and care that can help you help your self, evolution has given me the gift, smile to keep the strong and devour the weak, harmony and sustainablity, identify the balance of properity,winkmadshockedfrownfrown

programmes for every one as well.

laughlaughlaugh

except s.a.m, as he is too much of an ozzy male fabio god as isblushblush

he only needs to take his thongs off, and get rid of that mow, which looks like his nose hairs have gone funnycoolcool plus why would you underline a nose like that s.a.m lolwink

s.a.m would proberly go into the gym and health food shops and tell them about the molecular structure of being a dood that cant get enough help full info like all the rest of you
out to people.smile

okay enough mothering and concern, strength and awareness is every thing , image and recongnition is nothingwink
wink

and another one last thing, s..a.m's couldent go to the gym as  he is too chuby when he gets a hard on he looks like the capital letter Qsmilesmilelaughwinkblushcooltongue

heheh only joking mate, auzzie auzzie auzzie!!!!!!!!!

hatred of ontological wastes, mad]mad 		 
   
 
   
    FreddyFarce
(Hive Bee)
05-05-01 08:37
No 189349
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Referring to:

the pH of distilled water is often 6.8 so each water wash will lower the pH a little bit as it removes the sodium and crap


The ph should be neutral 7 due to a balance of the H+ and OH- ions.

Worlock, I would hypothesize that taking that stopper out during the reaction, that various gasses would escape (HI, PI3, PH3, ect...) and also that oxygen would would then displace so of the gas. From what I have learned, it is favorable to have a closed reaction system instead of an open one. Taking the stopper off during the reaction would most certainly creat open reaction conditions. Also, for those without fume hoods and bodysuits; opening a reaction and therefore emitting those gasses would be hazardous. Many bees main problem is to deal with gasses, because of this they buy addittion funnels, tubing, condensors, vacums, fumehoods, fans, and all sorts of other equiptment to get rid of the fumes - taking the stopper off the reaction is counter-productive to these such measures.

JUST BECAUSE I TALK ABOUT SOMETHING, DOES NOT MEAN THAT I HAVE ACTUALLY DONE IT, OR PLAN TO DO IT! 		 
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-05-01 11:19
No 189373
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Referring to:

Thanks for the response. I understand how all that works but I was curious as to how the I- would bond directly to the ephed. Throw a hydrogen in there to protonate the nitrogen and the I- forms an ion pair and it all makes sense. Thanks again...hmm..that iodine is such a weak base, it'll give up that hydrogen like a cheap ho...I wonder if the protonated nitrogen is enough to break the I-I bond.. Probably is..right on. ...hmmm..


 


The formation of the ephed- freebase/HI is not going to completion only small amounts of free I- are formed, but enough to jazz the RP.

The Iodine is so large that  the nucleus is far from the outer shell electons  and does not bind them.

The iodide is large with many electrons, it tends to dispers the charges

Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    b159510
(Hive Bee)
05-05-01 11:26
No 189374
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Thanks for the response Worlock. And thanks for providing us with the tons of detailed info from all your work. Very cool. 		 
   
 
   
    SuperAssman
(Hive Addict)
05-05-01 11:27
No 189375
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
[quote]except s.a.m, as he is too much of an ozzy male fabio god as is..........
he only needs to take his thongs off, and get rid of that mow, which looks like his nose hairs have gone funny......
s..a.m's couldent go to the gym as  he is too chuby .....
heheh only joking mate, auzzie auzzie auzzie!!!!!!!!![quote]

The thongs are just about to go into Winter hibernation, so now it's time for the Ugh boots, jeans, and flanny tied aroung the waist. Packet of Winny Reds under T-Shirt sleeve.
But, there's no way I'm shaving the "Chopper Read", I like to scare the regular people.
Bogans of the world unite! "Aussie,Aussie,Aussie.............. ;                          Roids,Roids,Roids!"...................
"Let's go down tha Pub Wazza, Uncanny X-Men 'n  The Radiators are playing, fuckin'value!". Low burble of 5 litres of Aussie grunt backing out the driveway, clunk into 1st, then the HZ Monaro(with Yella Terra roller rockers, and Lukey headers), does the obligatory burnout to "put the wind up the neighbours")_____________________________<--10 yards of Kelly Springfield.
Wallet pictures of SWIMs babies.Aaahhh, ain't they lovely.
Post No 178231
Post No 175966 		 
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-05-01 11:42
No 189377
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   


Jaked your a Jenius with a practical understanding of the properties of this stuff.
How come everytime you write a couple of lines , I end up spending a month learning why your new variation works.

75% yield is good news , because I was starting to blame the DEA for adding a nasal decongestant to the psuedo-fed, and messing with the yields

Flooding the mixture with water after the first phase, is unique and wild, Your striking a blow against those who desire to say the dry method is a sux method,

By mixing the two methods together, you are using a  different method for each of the two steps of the SN2 reaction, and it would seem that a two step reaction would fit right in.

Damn now I gotta try it
You use E freebase don't yoou?
Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    b159510
(Hive Bee)
05-05-01 11:59
No 189380
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Sorry to pester you again Worlock, but could you explain what you mean here:
By mixing the two methods together, you are using a different method for each of the two steps of the SN2 reaction, and it would seem that a two step reaction would fit right in.
From this it seems your saying the OH is replaced by I in one step, why do you think this is so? Also, the reduction of the iodoephedrine, what atoms/ions do you think are involved in this step? Thank you. 		 
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-05-01 12:30
No 189385
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Worlock, have you ever tried washing with NaOH solution?
SWIM now does a single NaOH wash, followed by a single warm/hot water wash, then one cold water wash, or two if a ton of lye was used in the wash. This has improved cleanliness of gear, as well as yields.
Presumably, the lye wash allows maximum removal of iodides as NaI in the subsequent water washes. Helps keep Ph right up there too.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yeah I have in the past, thinking I needed it to maintain the meth in the freebase stage,
Using it as a wash is a smart move, something I have overlooked, 

The hot water washing is ANOTHER great idea,
Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    FreddyFarce
(Hive Bee)
05-05-01 12:52
No 189387
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
My above post seems to have been ignored.
JUST BECAUSE I TALK ABOUT SOMETHING, DOES NOT MEAN THAT I HAVE ACTUALLY DONE IT, OR PLAN TO DO IT! 		 
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-05-01 13:05
No 189388
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
epistemologicide,

Make no mistake , I agree with you completely that one must maintain a balance , of the mental, physical, and spiritual. To develop one of these to excess throws the whole system out of balance.

To assume that we pursue the mental gymnastics and aviod physical challenges is not true by many means.
Many have good genes and are well endowed physically and still sharp as a whip (if a whip is truly sharp).

Always willing to learn new things, but no need to worry about me, I have a degree among many others in "Clinical nutrition", and practiced succerssfully for over 12 years in the medical health field.

At home I have a complete gym, universal machine, over a ton of free weights, core equipment for developing uncanny balance,equilibrium, speed,  and agility,  and ride a mountain bike.

I specialize in the sunday punch, getting off the first punch when I smell trouble, and never  wait for them to unload on me. Seems if you hurt them first , they loose the desire to be ignorant and beligerent.

I eat red hot nails for breakfast, an no milk




Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    SuperAssman
(Hive Addict)
05-05-01 13:27
No 189391
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Referring to:

My above post seems to have been ignored.

You're complaining about this? Let sleeping dogs lie Fred.

Wallet pictures of SWIMs babies.Aaahhh, ain't they lovely.
Post No 178231
Post No 175966 		 
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-05-01 13:36
No 189393
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Covalent bonds- are the bonds that hold atoms together to form molecules C-C,  or C-H, or C=O,

ionic bonds- are much weaker and are attractive electrical forces
(polar)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are H+ and OH- ions present in water
the dissociation constant is 1 x 10^-14 for water

[H+]*[OH-]
----------- = 1 x 10^-14
[H2O]

Assume [H2O] = 1

The concentration of H+ in pure water is 1 x 10^-7 moles/liter
Take the negative log of the hydrogen ion concentration and the pH=7

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I2 is only slightly soluble in water and it is the ionic form that is soluble species.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not that important until you toss some RP in with iodine and ephedrine-freebase, at room temperature, and your flask vomits it up in a fraction of a second ruining the reaction, and injuring someone.
Perhaps then it will feel more significant.

Then you will say ," Wull,that did not happen when I used the chloride salt of ephedrine instead of the freebase".
Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-05-01 14:33
No 189397
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Poster: b159510
Subject: Re: Basic Reaction Setup

Sorry to pester you again Worlock, but could you explain what you mean here:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By mixing the two methods together, you are using a different method for each of the two steps of the SN2 reaction, and it would seem that a two step reaction would fit right in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From this it seems your saying the OH is replaced by I in one step, why do you think this is so? Also, the reduction of the iodoephedrine, what atoms/ions do you think are involved in this step? Thank you.




OK the reaction using iodine, phos , and Ephedrine
to make meth is basically the same as an alcohol reacting with a Hydrogen halide,
The -OH on the ephedrine is the alcohol portion of the E molecule that reacts,

1)The alcohol accepts a proton from H+ I- to form a protonated alcohol
ROH + HI <---> ROH2+ +  I-  reversable

2)This dissociates into water and a carbonium Ion
ROH2+ <--> R+ + H20     reversable

3) the carbonium ion reacts with an iodide to form the alkyl halide
R+ + I- -----> R-I  This is a nucleophiliic substitution
of the type SN1
THis is a slow step because the carbonium ion does not form easily/
The tendency is to spit the H+ off and leave the ROH intact
Hence Phase1 ,

The release of the I- and replacement with H+ is similar. it is not reversable. This has all been written up before in the hive and I suggest looking it up in organic chem if you require further details on the SN2 reaction.


Holy Gringnard Batman is somewhat similar ,uses a metal halide and RP is metal in some ways.

If your looking for a flaw in my logic,forget it, it is not there. The  mechasnisms are standard procedures in all organic books and well documented

The reduction that everyone talks about occuring,
is in there,  Can you  guesss  where ???
MMMuuuaahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
better read your organic text, cause I did not reveal it   


I fail to see where the closed system is required , or that atmospheric Oxygen will affect this

Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-05-01 15:34
No 189402
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
the pH of distilled water is often 6.8 so each water wash will lower the pH a little bit as it removes the sodium and crap



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The ph should be neutral 7 due to a balance of the H+ and OH- ions.





Unfortunately no one told the distilled water it was to be at pH 7.0  and not at pH 6.8
Being stubborn it is still at a pH 6.8, The reason is that dealing with concentration is not good enough , one needs to consider activity of a compound, for example H+ travels faster than OH- because of size ans still carries the same charge ezxcept more concentrated the result is mor H+ can be jammed ino the measureing device than OH- /volume
And So the pH of distilled water measures pH6.8



Worlock, I would hypothesize that taking that stopper out during the reaction, that various gasses would escape (HI, PI3, PH3, ect...) and also that oxygen would would then displace so of the gas. From what I have learned, it is favorable to have a closed reaction system instead of an open one. Taking the stopper off during the reaction would most certainly creat open reaction conditions. Also, for those without fume hoods and bodysuits; opening a reaction and therefore emitting those gasses would be hazardous. Many bees main problem is to deal with gasses, because of this they buy addittion funnels, tubing, condensors, vacums, fumehoods, fans, and all sorts of other equiptment to get rid of the fumes - taking the stopper off the reaction is counter-productive to these such measures.



The reaction is kept at a low level and is not heated past warm
so when the stopper is removed , there is some HI gas escaping but it is minor.
Yes I do have a strong fan sucking away the fumes.

At one time iI relied on the bathroom fart fan , but when I crawled up into the attic the fart fan did not even vent to the outside but just stopped there, this is a common building practice in bathrooms.
So I installed a squirrel cage and a 8 inch diameter air tube to carry the fumes out to the roof,
No longer is the place getting stained heavily and the walls are slowly loosing the yellow discoloration,

In addition,  available within reach are gas masks that allow me stay in the room no matter what has happened to the reaction mix these are your standard military gas masks, that cover the face and use a chemical filter media.


The closed system is a farce since the Push pull is not a closed system ,
And the reflux also a successfull procedure is not closed either.

And what gas do you want and which are to be excluded

The reaction will pull in as much atmosphereic gas as it can.
For a closed system you would have to purge the system of unwanted gases and charge it with your preferred gas , and be certain that the P/P was only allowed to inhale the specified gas.
I have not seen this as the case any where.

On the pull phase, tank(2) two sucks down atmospheric gases , it goes into tank(1) one down the hose and
is absorbed into the reaction mixture, so what is the difference.

This mechanism of pulling is an odd one , because that shit will pull hard and collapse the tops of jars to get some air.
But I would like to know what is evacuating the gas out the reaction vessel so rapidly,  and what gas is being absorbed.
Some pulls are far stronger than the pushes.




Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-05-01 15:34
No 189403
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
the pH of distilled water is often 6.8 so each water wash will lower the pH a little bit as it removes the sodium and crap



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The ph should be neutral 7 due to a balance of the H+ and OH- ions.





Unfortunately no one told the distilled water it was to be at pH 7.0  and not at pH 6.8
Being stubborn it is still at a pH 6.8, The reason is that dealing with concentration is not good enough , one needs to consider activity of a compound, for example H+ travels faster than OH- because of size ans still carries the same charge ezxcept more concentrated the result is mor H+ can be jammed ino the measureing device than OH- /volume
And So the pH of distilled water measures pH6.8


[

Worlock, I would hypothesize that taking that stopper out during the reaction, that various gasses would escape (HI, PI3, PH3, ect...) and also that oxygen would would then displace so of the gas. From what I have learned, it is favorable to have a closed reaction system instead of an open one. Taking the stopper off during the reaction would most certainly creat open reaction conditions. Also, for those without fume hoods and bodysuits; opening a reaction and therefore emitting those gasses would be hazardous. Many bees main problem is to deal with gasses, because of this they buy addittion funnels, tubing, condensors, vacums, fumehoods, fans, and all sorts of other equiptment to get rid of the fumes - taking the stopper off the reaction is counter-productive to these such measures.



The reaction is kept at a low level and is not heated past warm
so when the stopper is removed , there is some HI gas escaping but it is minor.
Yes I do have a strong fan sucking away the fumes.

At one time iI relied on the bathroom fart fan , but when I crawled up into the attic the fart fan did not even vent to the outside but just stopped there, this is a common building practice in bathrooms.
So I installed a squirrel cage and a 8 inch diameter air tube to carry the fumes out to the roof,
No longer is the place getting stained heavily and the walls are slowly loosing the yellow discoloration,

In addition,  available within reach are gas masks that allow me stay in the room no matter what has happened to the reaction mix these are your standard military gas masks, that cover the face and use a chemical filter media.


The closed system is a farce since the Push pull is not a closed system ,
And the reflux also a successfull procedure is not closed either.

And what gas do you want and which are to be excluded

The reaction will pull in as much atmosphereic gas as it can.
For a closed system you would have to purge the system of unwanted gases and charge it with your preferred gas , and be certain that the P/P was only allowed to inhale the specified gas.
I have not seen this as the case any where.

On the pull phase, tank(2) two sucks down atmospheric gases , it goes into tank(1) one down the hose and
is absorbed into the reaction mixture, so what is the difference.

This mechanism of pulling is an odd one , because that shit will pull hard and collapse the tops of jars to get some air.
But I would like to know what is evacuating the gas out the reaction vessel so rapidly,  and what gas is being absorbed.
Some pulls are far stronger than the pushes.


Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    b159510
(Hive Bee)
05-05-01 16:55
No 189411
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Yes, the formation of iodoephedrine you describe is the typical SN1 pathway found in polar protic solvents. This needed no explanation, just clarification as I thought you were saying it was following the bimolecular pathway. I have found no explanation at the Hive or Rhodium's for the reduction of iodoephedrine. Your comment indicates you believe the RP acts on the molecule in a fashion synonymous to the gringard? In that case, meth maybe considered as a side reaction I believe. I will look into that, thanks for the tip. Books? No problem. Have to buy new ones every semester. Always keep the old ones. Nice chunk of change there for sure. BTW, I have posed the question to a PhD o-chemistry professor, who could not identify the mechanism immediately, and will be getting back to me. Thanks for the quick response worlock. 		 
   
 
   
    Lizard
(Hive Mascot)
05-06-01 00:47
No 189478
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
How the hell do ya train so's you can eat those red hot nails!!tongue

  
   
 
   
    goiterjoe
(Hive Bee)
05-06-01 00:59
No 189479
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
worlock, how can a pull be stronger than the push?  I was under the impression that the pull was caused by the gas displaced by the push being sucked back into the reaction due to uneven pressure levels between the flask and the tanks.  this led me to believe that the pull can at most be the same size as the push, but in most cases it would be less.  however, I would imagine the pull to be quicker and a lot more violent than the pull.  I'm not questioning what you said at all, because I have never attempted a p/p and haven't really studied it.  what little bit I thought I knew about it seems to be flawed though, due to what you mentioned.  I would like to know why this is for future reference.
If pacman influenced us, we'd glide around dark rooms eating pills and listen to repetitive music. 		 
   
 
   
    epistemologicide
(Newbee)
05-06-01 02:35
No 189485
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
you can all train and still buy pills!! and eat nails i think

thanx to every one that sent me pm's from that message, and all the old timers hehehe,

worlok you know your stuff mate, and you know how to take care of ya self, i feel better now that i know that for sure,

so all the newbees , dont just learn from worloks methods, learn from his all his strengths.

ps-s.a.m, is there any thing i can put in the dreams so i dont end up sounding like a bevan??

wink
hatred of ontological wastes, and the marathon!!!! 		 
   
 
   
    SuperAssman
(Hive Addict)
05-06-01 14:46
No 189581
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Referring to:

ps-s.a.m, is there any thing i can put in the dreams so i dont end up sounding like a bevan??

Anything golf related.
A bogan is like a fish outa water on a golf course, UNLESS of course, they are doing some "urban circle-work" on the greens! Otherwise, the only time a bogan sets foot on a golf course, ia to do some "Midnight 'Roo-shootin'". Fresh meat for Shazza 'n the kids.
Ahh, a tuckerbox full of red meat in the garage, wth a pregnant half-staffy- half-blue heeler bitch about to welp out het fourth litter on the newspapers on the floor(smart Bevan less mess to hose out this time), a V8 in the driceway, a concrete aboriginal in the front yard, a headjob from the new girl in payroll at the King Gee factory, Dads retirement party from the same factory is on next week, Hoges has mage another movie, and tonight the State of Origin is on the big-screen at the Pub, followed by the reformation gig of The Sunnyboys.
In the absence of a big Compo payout, does life get any sweeter for a Bogan???tongue

Wallet pictures of SWIMs babies.Aaahhh, ain't they lovely.
Post No 178231
Post No 175966 		 
   
 
   
    SuperAssman
(Hive Addict)
05-06-01 16:24
No 189588
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Referring to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

my non-organic chem. book says that 'iodine is in water only soluable in the presence of I- ions forming an complex [..]'
I2 + I- --> I3-




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BieneMaja, SWIM don't know much about this stuff, but isn't iodine soluble in alcohols? Pfed is a benzyl alcohol, so mix with H2O, voila, the iodine is able to mix. SWIM has observed this with mixtures of rxn chems, ranging from the Nil moisture setups, which sees the iodine sit there photo-disassociating as it waits for the rxn itself to make water! Through to the very wet ones, they mix well.



Referring to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

E freebase with Iodine in the presense of water, the E freebase will snap up the free H+  +  I- ions
equilibrium will be reached a  portion of the E becomes the iodide salt with a resultant production of heat 
and liberation of a  free I- atom





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Following may help.
Read following from some Uni site:(I'll PM it if the formatting is crapped up)........
Oxidation - (gain oxygens) lose electrons, increase oxidation number

Reduction - (gain hydrogen, hydrogenation), gain electrons, reduce oxidation number

Assign Oxidation numbers
     The element which is most electronegative is assigned the negative charge, thus   
     commonly the following assignments are made:
H +1 except with metals
O -2 except with F, O  (Examples are peroxide, -1 in O2-2; superoxide, -1/2 in O2-:  +2 in OF2)
F, Cl, Br, I -1 except with O or lighter halogen (F  -1)
S -2 except with F, O, Cl

All elements have oxidation number 0 in the elemental state
The sum of oxidation numbers must equal charge on species

Balance Equations
Divide into half reactions - one for oxidation/one for reduction

Balance half reactions separately

Balance mass of element oxidized/reduced

Add electrons to reflect oxidation/reduction

Add H+ in acid or OH- in base to balance charge

Add H2O to balance mass

Multiply half reactions to make number of electrons gain/lost equal

Add and delete common terms
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seven Strong Acids:  HCl, HBr, HI, HNO3, HClO3, HClO4, H2SO4

Strong soluble bases:  Group 1 and (moderately soluble) heavy members of group 2 hydroxides.

Solubility Rules (taken from Whitten, Davis and Peck, 5th Edition)

Generally Soluble.-             Exceptions

#Na+, K+, NH4+ compounds,-           none

#chlorides, Cl-                      insoluble:  AgCl, Hg2Cl2
                                     soluble in hot water: PbCl2

#bromides, Br-                        insoluble:  AgBr, Hg2Br2, PbBr2
                                     moderately:  HgBr2

#iodides, I-                           many metal salts

#sulfates, SO42- and sulfites, SO32-   insoluble:  BaSO4,                                 PbSO4, HgSO4,BaSO3,                           PbSO3, HgSO3
                                       moderately soluble:  CaSO4, SrSO4, Ag2SO4, CaSO3, SrSO3, Ag2SO3

#nitrates, NO3-                         none

#nitrites, NO2-                          moderately soluble:  AgNO2

#chlorates, ClO3-                            none

#perchlorates, ClO4-                          moderately soluble:  KClO4

#permanganates, MnO4-                         none

#acetates, CH3CO2-                            AgCH3CO2


Generally Insoluble Exceptions
sulfides, S2- soluble:  NH4+, Na+, K+, Mg2+, Ca2+
oxides, O2-, and hydroxides, OH- soluble:  Li2O, LiOH, Na2O, NaOH, K2O, KOH, BaO, Ba(OH)2
moderately soluble:  CaO, Ca(OH)2, SrO, Sr(OH)2
carbonates, CO32-, phosphates, PO43-, and arsenates, AsO43- soluble:  NH4+, Na+, K+




Wallet pictures of SWIMs babies.Aaahhh, ain't they lovely.
Post No 178231
Post No 175966 		 
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-06-01 21:38
No 189617
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
The Hive's mascot is a Lizard?
Them hivers it is always something. hey wot

For the red hot nails I have for breakfast?

Actually I think I may have overstated my position on the exact nature of the nails, I suppose they are not really "red" hot.

Wull..... they are warm, and they are nails,... errr ...or they could a  been  nails,  or part of  nail.
They are made from iron anyway.
Sorta more like it is iron
Well an iron suppliment, what are you all staring at, ok well you could heat it up and it would be red hot

Alright alright so instead of red hot nails I have some geritol every morning,
Wull, not every morning cause  iron constipates me , and I have a delicate digestive system.



Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-06-01 23:33
No 189632
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
The final step in the Hi RP reaction is dehalo-hydrogenation
it has the mark of a substition reaction neucleophilic
SN2 reactions are capable of rearrangement and reconfiguration.

The PI3  or I-  will peel off the Iodide , a backside attack upon the alpha carbon by a proton forming a carbonium ion again , the oxidation states are where this will balance out and phosphorous is such a squirrel to try and pin down , that I won't attempt it until I read several chapters and not today.




The size of the one iodide atom is faily accurate and a chlorine atom is only 1/3 the size, the main advantage I see to free base Ephedrine is removing the Chlorine.
The chlorine because of its smaller size can get in closer to the molecules side chain and break bonds, the bulky iodide can't even get near to many of the sensitive bonds
Te absence of Chlorine would save damage to the molecule.
Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-07-01 00:26
No 189639
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
   
Poster: epistemologicide
Subject: Re: Basic Reaction Setup

you can all train and still buy pills!! and eat nails i think

thanx to every one that sent me pm's from that message, and all the old timers hehehe,

worlok you know your stuff mate, and you know how to take care of ya self, i feel better now that i know that for sure,

so all the newbees , dont just learn from worloks methods, learn from his all his strengths.

ps-s.a.m, is there any thing i can put in the dreams so i dont end up sounding like a bevan??


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hatred of ontological wastes, and the marathon!!!! 


epistemologicide,
thAnks for your concern and pointing out some of the things we should always be careful to include in our life styles, It is too easy to not exercise and eat right when your natural circadian rythym is no longer based on a 24 hour cycle but is extended closer to 48 hours.
The worst is when your day cycle is 36 hours, Then the mornings and nights of every other day are similar and when you look out at dusk , it is easy to be fooled into thinking it is dawn.

My favorite exercise devices are the core mode exercises. The core refers to the small intrinsic muscles of the spine , skull, legs and arms that let you control balance and equilibrium when you are balanced here your overall strenghth is increased
A small trampolene is one such device , bouncing twisting and done with eyes closed is great , pick up some dumbells and try it ,

Another great piece is a square board with a ball under it , for working on balance

Skate boards, Jumping around with a medicine ball
snow skiis with wheels on them.

The free weights and universal gym I picked up a garage sale for $500 and a few gms,  The weights  include the big olympic style weights and bars , pulleys and cables everywhere  It also cost me a dining table since my  dining room is now a weight room. I still marvel at what some people will trade for a small amount of gogo, they seem to have no sense of value of physical items when they Jones-en.

I often hear myself say "no keep your motorcyle or car. A gm is a most I'll give you, I got three already ., what am I going to do with another ""
.  "Okay here is a half a grm sign over the the title to the Lincoln town car and the 914 porche and we are even.

My absolute favorite form of exercise and it includes a low calorie box lunch is a blonde bomber, Can work her out all night, pace yourself, and make sure she gets plenty of nucleoprotein injections and on a regular basis.

It is easier to be a vampire in a town full of vampires, where groceries , gas stations , hardware stores , even wall mart are open 24 x 7. They never close.

At 3am you can't imagine the large number of very intense people searching, tweaking, at wall mart .



Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    epistemologicide
(Newbee)
05-07-01 14:07
No 189797
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
worlok, i thought i had a sense about the vampires, but now i truly say i know what you mean

as thanx to and hem,lol

i have been fryed for 4 days,

thanx alot fella's, becasue of the the recystalization method i didnt know what or how big the content was, fuck man it ant funny god dam it, i have been sitten here for dayz, shit i even had sex with an ugly chick, and fuck on top of that she is fat,cool

i anit gonna do that shit again lol, i hope the fat chick dosent wake up.

one thing though, the crystals seemed to melt??, it was methonol not isoppl that was used via, disolving and boiling untill skin, then fresh methonol and 20 ml tone etc, then freeze and they grew, and filtered with cold methonol which we thought might dislove the chili any wayz. then actone right?? they seemed to melt, hang on that was after we grew them again sorry, when we first grew them this dumb ass new bee, hair dryed them and melted them all, so we re did the above to them, and the second time they grew after we did that they seem to ,melt.

*puts the fat bitch back to bed*
just hope i was doing every thing right.

yeah bro the compound (multi body parts)exercises rock the most, its cool your doing alot of free weight stuff like the tramp*shit the fat bitch got up, it okay honey i was just talking to some one*stuff with dumbells, any machines cables etc, wont give you the strength and tone that free weights will. and worlok the gogo you make people would sell their soul, thanks hem, those photo's made me do it, it becasue of you two numb skullz that i am still sittien here after 4 days lol.

here is some cool strength stuff, it sounds like your doing alot cardo stuff, and that stuff is cool, the blonde etc,
try some dead lifts some time, which is you load up the bar bellz and do a dead movement from the ground,lift and come up and lift yur traps up and hold em for 2 sec then go and place on the ground again, ofcasue making sure your back is alined and keept properlly angled and not bent over, its the equiverlent of the squats(meaning the most benifical) for the legs for the back, so you get your legs, lower back, (sorry blondie)shoulders trapz etc, basically you get stronger and can sunday punch into next week, which is what i will do to myself if i ever have those freaken crystals again,lol

shit man, its the only time im gonna say this worlok you suck man hehehe, those things have fryed me man, im a messs, i can even go to the toilet, lol

ps s.a.m, mate i still got tears in my eyes from your bevan post, man you know how much funner that shit is when your in my state, next time im on the gogo, i ant gonna come near the hive , your all fucken maniacs man.


hatred of ontological wastes, and the marathon!!!! 		 
   
 
   
    Worlock
(Tweaker God)
05-07-01 14:30
No 189802
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
goiterjoe

I had written a reponse to your push /pull question, but I don't see it posted anywhere, does not do much good unless I post it.


If we look back at the methods prior to using a gas scrubber device like the P/P,we find:

Initially a 15' to 20' length of hose was run from the reaction flask to the outside.
Once your rection exceeds an ounce, the smoke and odor begin to be noticable.

Then they ran the hose into some kitty litter , but still around 1 to 1.5oz was a bust unless done at night.

 
The next advancement was to run a hose from the reaction flask up a foot or two then down into a pail of water on the floor. This was much more effective at eliminating smoke and unpleasant gasses.
The problem was that as soon as the cook removed the flask from the heat,  water would siphon up the hose and into the flask, and flood the reaction vessel.
Then length or diameter of the hose was no guarentee that this was not going to happen because it would easily siphon up a 20 foot hose 1.5 inches in diameter. The cook or assistant would have to operate the hose end in the pail and when it sucked back they pull the hose out of the water. A single cook then had both hands tied up,  one operating the hose the other swirling the reaction flask.


So the p/p was designed from a common gas trap used in chemistry labs
and prevented the siphon back effect.

From this you can see that forces stronger than  a gravity flow of water are affecting the movement of fluid in the tanks.
As you mention it is easy to visualise a strong push, just because of fireworkds explosions and the expansion of hot gasses  etc.

In the last reaction I ran,  the outlet hole in the #2 push pull tank had a hose in it that led into the drain. This hose had accidently folded over and was partially plugged . The push was ok
and all the water in tank 1 was pushed into tank 2 , when it came time to pull, the hose collapsed  the thing could not get air and the gas-can I used as tank 1 collapsed in an instant, the sides did not just bend  a little,  but all the air in tank 1 was removed and the bottom and the sides collapsed violently,
So you see,  the chemical reaction was absorbing a huge amount of GAS. It is possible to implode the reaction flask from the great vacumn pressure ,and this does happen ., not often but it does happen.



Worlockium
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/4986/two/start.html
  
   
 
   
    ChemoSabe
(Hive Bee)
07-10-01 22:47
No 189891
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
Hi Worlock,

I'm new to this and am just getting my P/P tanks ready for action. While the Hive was down I saw some red plastic gas cans for real cheap at a major Home Improvement franchise and bought em. Now that the Hive is back up I see that the cans i bought are identical to the ones you are using. I also picked up a lego brand flexihose that fit perfectly into the large screw on caps for the filling holes on the cans. My challenge of the moment is getting the flexihose sealed well and bonded to the screw on caps. So far I've used JB weld for the bonding to the screw on caps but there is still some water leakage when I fill the cans. Any recommendation on doing the final waterproofed sealing ?

Plus I read the whole thread but maybe somehow skipped this. Do you run an output hose out of your second tank as it is without one in the photo.

Thanks,
Chemosabe
You can try to run but you can't hide from what's inside of you. 		 
   
 
   
    hookedonhydro
(Stranger)
07-17-01 02:56
No 191053
       Re: Basic Reaction Setup    
   
you can get this Goop stuff at almost every home impovement store.. put a shit load on.... dry.. fill up bath tub.. submerse the setup,, look for bubbling,, if there is any.. its not 100% airtight.. source of bubling is your leak.. blah blah..
Warning: Masterbating 6 times in 2 hours can cause minor iritation to the genitalia 		 
   

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